منتديات الباحثين في الدراسات الخاصة بمترجمي العربية وتأهيل المترجمين

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The Eleventh Training Cycle 2021

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  • Course The Eleventh Training Cycle 2021

    In this course, we are going to follow up on Touria 's training from Arabic into English.
    She will post in each lesson 250 words. We are going to meet on Zoom as usual (same time, same days) to discuss her translation.

    Hamada Mohammad
    Hamada: This is for your information.

  • #2
    Hello Mohammed I choose the below text for the first session. Many thanks!

    الفلسفة في الإسلام:
    لم يعرف الإسلام الفلسفة إلا بعد انتقال العلوم اليونانيّة القديمة وترجمتها إلى العربية بعد فتح الأمصار، ولذلك أصبحت الحكمة مرادفاً للفظة الفسلفة عند مفكري المسلمين في الكثير من كتاباتهم، ومع ذلك فإنّ لها العديد من التعريفات عند علماء المسلمين مع تداخلها مع العديد من العلوم كعلم الكلام والفقه وعلوم اللغة.

    الفلسفة الإسلامية
    تعريف الفلسفة الإسلامية:
    يُستخدَم مصطلح الفلسفة الإسلامية للإشارة إلى الأفكار الفلسفيّة المعتمدة على النصوص الدينيّة في الإسلام للتعبير عن الأفكار حول الكون وطبيعة الخلق والحياة، ويمكن كذلك أن يُستخدم بصورة أشمل ليضمّ كل التصورات الفلسفية والأعمال الفكرية التي أُنتجت في ظل الثقافة الإسلامية والحضارة التي أنتجتها الدولة العربية في كافة أقطارها، وذلك دون ربطها بالعلوم الشرعيّة، ويمكن أن يسبب هذا لبساً لدى البعض في التفرقة بين الفلاسفة المسلمين وبين غير المسلمين الذين عاشوا في ظل الحضارة الإسلاميّة.

    :نشأة الفلسفة
    بدأ البحث في المواضيع الفلسفية المتعلّقة بالرؤية الشاملة للحياة، والبحث حول الحقيقة مع بدايات الحضارة الإسلاميّة، وقد عرف المسلمون علم الكلام الذي يُعدّ بذرة تيار الفلسفة الإسلامية في مرحلة مبكّرة، وقد اعتمد في الأساس على استخدام الأساليب اللغويّة والمنطقية مستمدة من القرآن والسنة، لمواجهة المشككين في الإسلام وثوابته، ثم تطوّر الفكر الفلسفي ووصل لذروته في القرن التاسع الهجري بعد اطلاع المسلمين على الفلسفة اليونانية القديمة، وظهر جيل من الفلاسفة الذين اختلفوا في منهجهم وبحثهم عن علماء الكلام، فانتقلوا من دراسة النصوص المكتوبة إلى مرحلة إثبات الحقائق بالأدلة العقليّة، وقد بلغت الأعمال الفلسفيّة الإسلامية ذروتها عند كل من ابن رشد في الأندلس.الذي تمسّك بتحكيم العقل بناء على المشاهدات والتجارب.
    و قد سبقه الى ذلك كل من الكندي الذي لقب بالمعلم الأول و الفرابي.



    Philosophy in Islam

    Philosophy became known only after the spread of the Ancient Greek Sciences and having been translated following the Islamic conquests. Therefore, the term wisdom became synonymous with philosophy to Islamic thinkers in many of their writings. In addition, Muslim scholars provided numerous definitions of philosophy, given its interference with many sciences, such as : Speech Science, El Fikh( Islamic Doctrine), and Linguistics.

    Islamic Philosophy
    What is Islamic Philosophy?
    Islamic Philosophy is a term utilised to refer to the philosophical concepts that are based on religious texts, to express ideas about the universe, the nature of creation and life.
    Moreover, this term can be also used more comprehensively to include all the philosophical perceptions and the intellectual works that were produced under the Islamic culture and civilization, produced in turn by all the Arab states(without linking it to religious science). This can cause some to confuse between Muslim and Non-Muslim philosophers who lived under the Islamic Civilization.

    The Emergence of The Islamic Philosophy:
    With the beginning of the Islamic Civilization, research on philosophical topics related to the overview of life, as well as a research for the truth commenced.

    Moreover, Muslims became familiar with Speech Science that is considered the seed of the Islamic Philosophical Movement at an early stage. The speech Science relied essentially on using linguistic and logical styles derived from the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah(Prophetic Sunnah), to confront the skeptics of Islam and it's constants.
    The Philosophical thought developed thereafter, and reached its peak on the 9th AH, after Muslims learned about the Ancient Greek Philosophy.
    Therefore, a generation of philosophers whose methodology and research differed from that of Speech Scientists emerged, and they switched from the phase of studying written texts to the phase of proving facts with rational evidence.
    Furthermore, The Islamic Philosophical works reached the zenith with Averroes in Andalusia, where he maintained reasoning based on observations and experiments. However, Averroes was preceded by both Al-Kindi also called the first master and Al- Farabi.
    Last edited by Touria; 08-16-2021, 01:55 AM.

    Comment


    • Mohammed
      Mohammed commented
      Editing a comment
      Islam was not aware of philosophy until the ancient Greek sciences were brought over and translated into Arabic after the expansion of the Muslim state. As the term philosophy was completely new to Muslim thinkers, wisdom became synonymous with philosophy in many of their writings. Eventually, many definitions appeared among Muslim scholars, and their concept overlapped with various sciences, including ilm alkalam (CHECK), jurisprudence, and language sciences.

    • Hamada Mohammad
      Hamada Mohammad commented
      Editing a comment
      المقترحات التي جاءت في النقاش الذي دار حول الترجمة

      1) في الجملة الأولي من الفقرة الأولى كان هناك إشكال في parallel structure، نجد قبل كلمة and اسم وهو ... the spread of لكننا نجد بعدهاhaving been translated.
      2) في الفقرة الأولى لاحاجة لجعل الحروف capital في Ancient و Sciences.
      3) اقترحت رشا بدلا من Islamic thinkers نكتب Muslim thinker
      4) كلمة interference تعني (تدخل في شئون الغير)، اقترح حميدو كلمة overlap واقترحت كلمة intertwinement
      5 ) في الفقرة الثانية: لا حاجة لكلمة moreover لأننا مازالنا في بداية عرضنا للفكرة، فنحن لم نتعمق في الموضوع بعد حتى نحتاج ليربطنا بالموضوع السابق بالموضوع اللاحق، هذه هي مهمة الروابط و moreover مثالٌ عليها الآن.

    • Hamada Mohammad
      Hamada Mohammad commented
      Editing a comment
      لا أستطيع جعل النص في التعليقات يكون اتجاه الكتابة يمين، فأرجو المعذرة.

  • #3


    اقتراحاتي للنص العربي

    1) العديد من التعريفات

    العديد: خطأ شائع، وإقترح أن نقول: عدة تعريفات.
    2) تكرار "بين" في جملة: التفرقة بين الفلاسفة المسلمين وبين غير المسلمين وأقترح "بين الفلاسفة المسلمين وغير المسلمين ".
    راجعي كتاب معجم الأخطاء اللغوية للعدناني صفحة (46) مسألة رقم 123.

    3) فلتجعلي "نشإة الفلسفة الإسلامية" في عنوان خاص، يعني: مراعاة المسافات لزيادة الوضوح فحسب.

    4) مستمدة، نقول: "المستمدة"، في جملة "وقد اعتمد في الأساس على استخدام الأساليب اللغويّة والمنطقية مستمدة من القرآن والسنة"

    5) نحذف النقطة (.) الموجودة بعد كلمة "الأندلس".
    كما أقترح أن تقولي: "والذي تمسك بتحكيم العقل ..." بدلاً من "الذي تمسك بتحكيم العقل ... ".

    6) بِنَاءً: يعني نضع التنوين .
    راجعي المعجم الوسيط مادة (بَنَى) صفحة رقم (72) ومعجم الصواب اللغوي دكتور أحمد مختار عمر مادة (بُناء) صفحة رقم 194.

    7) كُل
    تعرب حسب موقعها في الجملة. وهي في آخر سطر من المقالة أي في جملة " وقد سبقه كل من الكندي الذي لُقّب بالمعلم الأول" إعرابها هنا مفعول به للفعل "سبق"، ولهذا فتكتب "کلّاً" .وأيضاً إنْ قلتي: كُلاً، فهذا معناه أنَّه سيُذكر شخصان، لكنَّ المذكور هنا شخصٌ واحد.

    وفي النهاية الموضوع جميل وأشتاق لرؤية ترجمتك



    Last edited by Hamada Mohammad; 08-10-2021, 10:29 AM.

    Comment


    • Hamada Mohammad
      Hamada Mohammad commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Mar. Yes, these notes should be presented for the writer.
      Also, thank you Nihad.

    • Touria
      Touria commented
      Editing a comment
      شكرا جزيلا لملاحظاتك القيمة ، سآخذها بعين الإعتبار
      Hamada Mohammad

    • Touria
      Touria commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you @Mar

  • #4
    Hi Touria
    Thank you for taking the time to choose the ST,and to translate it to Tl. First, did you purposely use semi colon after: الفلسفة في الإسلام?
    Second , i wonder if you used the translation of philosophy in Islam, whether philosophy has began with Islam? Or you meant to say Islam after the Greek philosophical ideas kicked off ?Therefore , would it be right to rather translate it the Arabic Falsafa ,why i say this because historically there were many thinkers and scholars in who were non- Muslims. I am also wondering if the philosophical ideas were translated into Arabic to interpret the Qur'an revelations. That should lead me to say that philosophy existed way before Islam ,and Arabic thinkers and scholars used it to empower their arguments to prove the revelations and that what Profit Mohamed said was true .
    Third, the word wisdom was translated into Arabic as philosophy ,it was used and had been overlapping in many fields of studies such as; Kalam, interpretation of verses ; linguistics.
    In brief, I so appreciate giving me the opportunity to put some critics that may be of benefit to consider.
    Cheers.




    Comment


    • Touria
      Touria commented
      Editing a comment
      Dear Vicky
      Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my translation. The semi colon was a mistake, thanks for pointing that out. As for your second question or suggestion, it is known to everyone that philosophy existed before Islam and to tell you the truth I don't see that my translation indicates the opposite. I even wrote"... after Muslims learned about the Ancient Greek Philosophy...". Plus, I personally don't see why I should use falsafa instead of philosophy since I am translating(let's say)for English speakers who do not understand the Arabic language. Also, it may be a possibility that I misunderstood your remark( I'd appreciate it if you'd clarify). Many thanks Vicky, your remarks are always appreciated🌺
      Last edited by Touria; 08-16-2021, 06:22 AM.

  • #5

    طالبان: ما هو مصير أفغانستان بعد سيطرة الحركة على البلاد؟

    علقت صحف عربية على التطورات السريعة المتلاحقة في أفغانستان بعد سيطرة حركة طالبان على العاصمة كابل ومغادرة الرئيس أشرف غني البلاد.

    وتباينت آراء الكتاب بين من يرى أن أمريكا هُزمت "هزيمة كبرى" في أفغانستان، وبين من يحذر أن ما حدث ستترتب عليه "أحداث إقليمية وعالمية كبرى".

    ورأت صحف أن منطقة آسيا الوسطى، التي تتنافس فيها الصين والهند والولايات المتحدة، تحولت إلى "ساحة" للعب بين هذه القوى.

    وعبّر عدد من الكتاب عن مخاوفهم من أن سيطرة طالبان على الحكم "تفتح الباب أمام تشكل مرحلة يكون فيها للفكر المتطرف دولة يحكمها وهوية يسعى لنشرها".

    "ساحة اللعب الجديدة"

    تتوقع "القدس العربي" اللندنية في افتتاحيتها أن "مصيرا صعبا ينتظر الأفغانيين، وأن العالم يترقب بقلق ما سيحصل في أفغانستان".


    وتؤكد أن "ما حصل حدث كبير ستترتب عليه أحداث إقليمية وعالمية كبيرة، وأن الأفضل للجميع، وعلى رأسهم الولايات المتحدة الأمريكية، أخذ الدروس مما حصل، والحديث بصراحة عن الهزيمة التي تعرضت لها، بدل التلطي وراء تصريحات لا تستطيع تفسير أو تغيير الواقع".

    ويتوقع عبد الباري عطوان، رئيس تحرير "رأي اليوم" الإلكترونية اللندنية، ألّا يعود تنظيم القاعدة بصورته القديمة إلى أفغانستان بعد سيطرة طالبان على الحكم، قائلا: "سيكون حكام أفغانستان الجدد أكثر حرصا على الحصول على دعم دولي أو إقليمي لشرعيتهم ودولتهم".

    ويرى أن "احتمالات غرق البلاد في حرب أهلية عرقية غير مستبعدة، لوجود العديد من الطوائف (الشيعية في هرات ومزار الشريف تحديدا) والطاجيكية والتركمستانية في الحدود الشمالية، واحتمال إقدام القوى الإقليمية مثل إيران وروسيا والهند وتركيا، ناهيك عن الصين وأمريكا توظيف هذه الأوراق في صراعاتها".

    ويؤكد الكاتب أن "السر المسكوت عنه أن روسيا وإيران كانتا الداعم القوي ماليا وتسليحيا لحركة طالبان في حربها ضد الاحتلال الأمريكي، ومن المستبعد أن تقدم الحركة على أي تحالفات ضدهما".

    ⭐⭐

    Taliban: What's next for Afghanistan following the movement takeover?

    Arab newspapers commented on the rapid and successive developments in Afghanistan after Taliban taking over Kabul, and President Ghani's fleeing.

    Opinions varied between those seeing the new status quo as a major defeat for the US, while others warning against major potential regional and international events.

    According to some newspapers, the region of Central Asia has turned into a playing field between China, India and the US.
    On the other hand, a member of writers expressed their concerns over Taliban's seizing of power. They believe that the new political scene may smooth the way for a phase that would win extremist ideology a state to rule and an identity to spread.

    The New Playground

    "El-Quds El-Arabi" of London, projects in its editorial that a harsh fate awaits the Afghans and that the world is anxiously watching the developments.

    The newspaper also confirms that these new changes are a big event that will lead to bigger regional and international events. It would also be for the best interest of all, on top of them the US to learn from history and admit to their defeat instead of hiding behind statements that can neither explain nor change reality.

    Furthermore, Abd El-Bari Attoine, the Editor-in-chief of London Electronic"Ray El Yoom" expects a new face of El-Qaida in Afghanistan after the Taliban takeover. He said that the new rulers of Afghanistan will be more eager to get international or regional support for their legitimacy and state.

    Attoine adds that it is likely for an ethnic civil war to break out since there are many sects in the country including the Shiite in Harat and Mazan specifically, as well as the Tajik and The Turkmenistan in the northern borders. He also pointed out to the possibility of the ethnic card to be used by regional powers, such as: Iran, Russia, India and Turkey, in addition to China and the US.

    Moreover, the writer also confirms the untold secret suggesting that Russia and Iran represented a powerful support of Taliban's as far as money and armament were concerned in its war against the US. Therefore, he excluded the idea of Taliban turning against its supporting allies.
    Last edited by Touria; 08-18-2021, 03:13 PM.

    Comment


    • Mohammed
      Mohammed commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Touria. Just saw your post. This article is outside of my expertise and I am unable to assist. See if any experienced member can help and lead the discussions.

    • Mohammed
      Mohammed commented
      Editing a comment
      Reports in Arab newspapers featured the rapid development in Afghanistan since the Taliban took Kabul and President Ghani fled.

      The new status quo has divided opinion, with some seeing it as a major defeat for the US, and others warning of major regional and international events.

      A number of newspapers have reported that China, India and the United States are engaging in a game in Central Asia.

  • #6
    Hello Mohammed I apologize, I've just seen your comments(I rarely receive notifications from the forums). Anyways, I see your point, yet I'd like to tell you that I have learned a lot from your comments and the comments of the group. I appreciate your kind suggestions too. Thanks a lot

    Comment


    • #7

      Here is the thread for our recent discussions in the 11th cycle.
      Follow the link on Monday and Thursday at 9:00 PM Amman time.
      https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8175046622...0ybUdLR0NEQT09

      Comment


      • #8

        ​​​​​​البعد الإجتماعي للدروس الخصوصية
        .بقلم : شوقى خليفة
        عندما تسير- فى الوقت الحإلى- فى أى مكان من قرية أو مدينة ، فى حضر أو مضر، يشُد انتباهك ظاهرة واضحة وضوح الشمس: طلاب وطالبات من جميع المراحل التعليمية يسيروا فى الشوارع والأزقة، يجلسون انتظاراً للدخول بدلاً من مجموعة تخرج من مكان غير آدمى حول العمارات والمساكن، أو يجلسون على الأرصفة منتظرين الباشا الأستاذ ليضىء اللون الأخضر ليسمح لهم بالدخول. ظاهرة الدروس الخصوصية فى مصر تحتاج إلى فريق من الباحثين الأكاديمين ليكرسوا جُل جهدهم لدراسة هذه الظاهرة وأبعادها المختلفة، وأسبابها وطرق علاجها. واعتقد أنه مازال هناك وقت لتدارك الكارثة التى إذا حلت على أم الدنيا ستخرج من حيز الدنيا إلى عالم الأموات: أن يصبح الهدف والدافع الأول للمُتًعلم، هو الحصول على شهادة تثبت عدم أُميته فى عصر تغير فيه مفهوم الأُمية.
        فى الحقيقة، تكمن خطورة هذه الظاهرة فى الشارع التعليمى المصرى فى ثلاثة أبعاد –من وجهة نظرى:
        أولاً : البعد الإجتماعى والأخلاقى
        ويكمن هذا البعد فى التغيير الذى تحدثه الدروس الخصوصية فى التركيبة الإجتماعية والأخلاقية داخل الكيانات الإجتماعية متمثلة فى الأسرة والمدرسة، والمجتمع بأسره. وعندما نٌلمح إلى تغيير فى هذا السياق فهو تغيير- للأسف- إلى الأسوء. فمن التغييرات الملحوظة فى هذا البعد هو التفكك الأُسرى البطىء.فمن سمات الأسرة المصرية التى حفرها الزمن فى ذاكرتى هى تجمع كل أفراد الأسرة على مائدة واحدة وقت الوجبة الواحدة. يجلس الجميع معاً لتناول الافطار والغداء والعشاء. كانت المُتعة فى اللمة التى تشجع الفرد على الأكل فى مواعيد محددة ومُنتظمة. وذاك الإنتظام فى تناول الوجبات
        ​​​​​يحمل بين طياته عناصر الصحة والعافية

        ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

        The Social Dimension of Private Lessons
        by Shawki khalifa


        If you take a walk presently anywhere in a village or a city, you will be drawn by a crystal clear phenomenon characterised by having male and female students from all educational levels, walking down the streets waiting for their turn after the exit of another group from an inhuman place around buildings and houses. You may also find them sitting in the sidewalks waiting for the greenlight from their "leader" of a teacher to show them in. The phenomenon of private lessons in Egypt requires a devoted team of Academic researchers to study it and its dimensions thourouly, as well as its causes and potential solutions.
        Nevertheless, I believe we still have time to contain the disaster before it is inflicted upon the mother of the world and before it takes it from the world of the living to that of the dead. In other words, to a world where the goal and the number 1 motive of the learner is to obtain a certificate as a proof of his/her literacy in an age where the definition of illiteracy has changed. In fact, and in my opinion, the danger of this phenomenon on the Egyptian educational public lies in 3 dimensions:
        Firstly, social and ethical dimensions, which lie in the change brought upon by private lessons on the social and ethical combination inside the social entities, namely, family, school and the entire society.
        furthermore, when we hint at a change in this context, we refer to the worst unfortunately, and one of the clear changes in this regards is the slow family disintegration.
        Some of the characteristics of the Egyptian family that were engraved in my memory are the gatherings of the entire family around the same table to have breakfast, lunch and dinner. It was the pleasure gained from the cosiness of those gatherings that encouraged one to eat at specific and regular timings, a regularity that carried within itself the elements of health and wellness.
        Last edited by Touria; 08-23-2021, 12:53 PM.

        Comment


        • Mohammed
          Mohammed commented
          Editing a comment
          1. Everywhere you look in a village or city right now, you'll see a strange phenomenon. Students of all educational levels may be seen walking through the streets and alleyways, sitting and waiting to enter the building after a group has left. Occasionally, you will see them in and around buildings, or sitting on sidewalks waiting for the teacher to signal green prior to entering.

          2. Private tutoring in Egypt requires the attention of researchers who should to devote most of their efforts to studying the phenomenon and its various ramifications, as well as the causes and treatment options.

          Smooth transition: This is a disaster, but it is not too late to reverse the tide.

          3. We should try to save the country, widely regarded as the mother of the world by its own people, from sinking into the abyss where education is invariably equated solely with illiteracy.

          4. Apparently, the threat this phenomenon poses on the educational scene in Egypt can be summarized in three dimensions:

          5. In this dimension, private lessons contribute to the change of social and ethical systems within different social categories, from the family to the school system to the entire society.

          6. It is unfortunately true that when we mention a change in this context, it is a change for the worse. The slow disintegration of families is one of the most noticeable changes in this aspect. I recall the gathering of all family members around one table each day during the evening meal as one of the recurring characteristics of the Egyptian family. At breakfast, lunch, and dinner, everyone sits together. The enjoyment was in doing things together, the habit that encouraged one to eat on a regular basis.

          7. Eating regularly in this sense was what helped promote people's health and wellbeing.

        • Mohammed
          Mohammed commented
          Editing a comment
          Alternative text + machine translation results:

          When you go outside in the bustling streets of any village or city, you will be able to observe a clear phenomenon: school boys and girls of all grades walking in streets and alleys, waiting to enter after another group has departed. This happens around buildings and residences. On occasion, you may see them waiting on the sidewalks for their 'mister' to give them permission to enter. The situation that you are experiencing today is an aspect of a well-known phenomenon in Egypt, that of private instruction.

          As private tutoring has already become an issue of significant concern in society, it is essential to confront it through the efforts of researchers in order to gain a better understanding of their causes and suggest ways to treat them. It may still not have matured into a catastrophic event, and I believe it is not too late to reverse the tide before this phenomenon leads Egypt, or the mother of the world as it is often called by the Egyptians, into the depths of the abyss. The risk still exists that in this era when the meaning and intent of literacy have profoundly changed, the learner becomes so enslaved to achieving the exclusive goal of obtaining a certificate proving his literacy.

      • #9
        Hi touria, just saw your translation, well done! See you on zoom.

        Comment

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